1. Meet, greet and sign in, new attendees adding addresses to roster, at 4 p.m.
a. Denise Malvini called the meeting to order at 4:02 p.m.
b. Present besides Malvini were Robbee Royce, Rae Miller, Kathie Paul, David Besenfelder, Sheila Torres, Marilyn Hoffpauir, Loretta Landucci, David Loofbourrow, Mary Dodds, Mary Moreau, Isabel Leonard, Ardean Lehnus, Pat Stehr, Barbara Grant and Jane Moran.
2. Minutes and treasurer’s reports for May were tabled until the July meeting.
3. CEO Tim O’Keefe and Director of Resident Services Jeff Matheson were introduced. Loreta Landucci took notes of the discussion as follows:
Hi Rae,
Here are the notes I took at the meeting. There was a lot of cross talk, so I'm sure I didn't get everything. Feel free to use all or part of the notes.
Loreta
Guests:
Tim O’Keefe, CEO
Jeff, Director of Resident Services (for five years)
Tim noted that balance is an important consideration, that when something is given to someone, something is taken away from someone else.
Rae stated that a resident was asked to take her horses off a Rossmoor 80-acre pasture area. Who made decision, with what kind of input?
Tim responded:
When considering the solar, it was brought to the board, and it was noted that one resident and one nonresident had horses in the area being considered for the solar installation. No documentation was found. No guidelines or formal agreement was found regarding the horses, water, improvements. Legally, it is not good practice to have horses on land without an agreement.
The solar installation will be fenced off with no access. Installation of the solar does not necessarily mean that horses would not be allowed. The vendor is projecting putting $7.5 million in solar on Rossmoor land and charging Rossmoor for the energy. The original location was projected for the Rockview hillside. Last week a report showed that the area was too steep and the top soil too deep. Scaling back is being considered probably on a lower slope, on the RV parking lot and on the Maintenance building. No agreement has been reached at this point. The vendor will have access to the solar area, an easement, likely from corporation yard. There will still be access for hiking trails.
The GRF board considered: there is no agreement; is that the proper use of the land; should we have stables; should we have horses; balance; appropriate use; should one resident, and onenon resident have exclusive use of an area that is owned by GRF foundation.
Rae asked: Couldn’t we formalize something, an agreement with liability?
Mary stated that she was required to have a $1 million liability policy with GRF named.
There is 80 acres of fenced pasture. Sustainable Rossmoor’s proposal is for 5 acres for solar.
It was asked:
. Isn’t there a proscriptive easement because of continued use, and estoppel.
Aren’t there legal ramifications if you say no, can’t do it anymore.
Horse owners here might have legal rights.
. What can we do going forward?
Tim suggested that the club president write a letter, asking for what the club wants, including specifics. He said the present policy is that GRF makes decisions and policy, the CEO implements them. He said that GRF looks favorably on club requests that are accompanied by monetary contributions. He suggested developing a proposal and lobbying for it.
Tim said: In developing a proposal, consider: number of horses, a stable, how much space, who is going to operate it, what kind of liability would come with that, weigh use of land, cost, liability, number of residents impacted. Balance, what amenities, how are they going to be staffed, what resources are needed.
Jeff stated that although solar started the investigation into horses on Rossmoor land, solar and horses are not mutually exclusive.
Tim said that the flat land that the stable was on has been “repurposed”.
Jeff said that contractors pay rent to store their equipment in the corporation yard. GRF receives a yearly income from rent, which reduces the coupon cost. Also, on-site contractor vehicles are a cost savings because, in theory, this lowers contractor bids to mutuals.
A club member stated that we have been ignored in the last six months, we would like to be involved.
Jeff said that the club should address the horse use of the pasture and the request for stables as two different issues.
Jeff also stated that we should address the pasture area or stable as two separate issues.
Jeff said that operational costs are paid by the coupon, and the trust pays for capital improvements. He said that resources are scarce. There are requests from the 226 clubs.
Jeff advised that we keep in mind that most proposals don’t get approved.
There was a discussion about GRF CEO Adams selling the Rossmoor stables to Hossmoor in 2003.
Jeff recommended that the club not get wrapped up in history.
When a question of historical malfeasance was mentioned, Jeff said to be careful of statements of malfeasance.
Jeff said to think about moving forward. What happens going forward is what matters.
Jeff said that what happened in past may be totally irrelevant.
When asked “If we don’t currently have guidelines for horses in Rossmoor, why can’t we have an agreement?”
Tim recommended that the club write a pasture proposal.
It was asked if there are maps we could look at that show where the solar panels are going. Jeff said that he can show where the solar is proposed. Contact MOD looking for map of GRF property.
Tim and Jeff were thanked and left the meeting.
Mary stated that, in any case, she would not bring her horses back to the pasture area. She said the pasture area is a difficult place to keep horses. She said that she would be removing the contents of the two current corrals, including the pipe fencing.
There was a discussion of using a Rossmoor flat area for classes for handicapped children. The state pays $80 per hour. Some of the proceeds could go to Rossmoor. A flat area, two horses and a round pen would be required. There is not enough room in the current two-corral area for this. There is a question of liability and whether a business can be run on GRF property.
Club members discussed putting together an outline, concept, what is needed, i.e. looking for any other place that would be suitable.
It was suggested that the club ask for a lot and hope for a little.
It was also suggested that the club start with small steps.
After Jeff stated several times that one Rossmoor resident was using a GRF pasture, it was pointed out that the eviction of the last two horses in Rossmoor affected all of the members of the Horse Enthusiasts Club and all of the residents of Rossmoor because this GRF action took away the possibility of having a horse in Rossmoor.
The subcommittee will meet and give feedback to club members.
O’Keefe and Matheson were thanked for meeting with the club and providing information and suggestions.
The meeting adjourned at 5:30 p.m.
Next meeting: 4 p.m. Monday, July 18, 2016.
Respectfully submitted,
Rae Miller, secretary/treasurer
a. Denise Malvini called the meeting to order at 4:02 p.m.
b. Present besides Malvini were Robbee Royce, Rae Miller, Kathie Paul, David Besenfelder, Sheila Torres, Marilyn Hoffpauir, Loretta Landucci, David Loofbourrow, Mary Dodds, Mary Moreau, Isabel Leonard, Ardean Lehnus, Pat Stehr, Barbara Grant and Jane Moran.
2. Minutes and treasurer’s reports for May were tabled until the July meeting.
3. CEO Tim O’Keefe and Director of Resident Services Jeff Matheson were introduced. Loreta Landucci took notes of the discussion as follows:
Hi Rae,
Here are the notes I took at the meeting. There was a lot of cross talk, so I'm sure I didn't get everything. Feel free to use all or part of the notes.
Loreta
Guests:
Tim O’Keefe, CEO
Jeff, Director of Resident Services (for five years)
Tim noted that balance is an important consideration, that when something is given to someone, something is taken away from someone else.
Rae stated that a resident was asked to take her horses off a Rossmoor 80-acre pasture area. Who made decision, with what kind of input?
Tim responded:
When considering the solar, it was brought to the board, and it was noted that one resident and one nonresident had horses in the area being considered for the solar installation. No documentation was found. No guidelines or formal agreement was found regarding the horses, water, improvements. Legally, it is not good practice to have horses on land without an agreement.
The solar installation will be fenced off with no access. Installation of the solar does not necessarily mean that horses would not be allowed. The vendor is projecting putting $7.5 million in solar on Rossmoor land and charging Rossmoor for the energy. The original location was projected for the Rockview hillside. Last week a report showed that the area was too steep and the top soil too deep. Scaling back is being considered probably on a lower slope, on the RV parking lot and on the Maintenance building. No agreement has been reached at this point. The vendor will have access to the solar area, an easement, likely from corporation yard. There will still be access for hiking trails.
The GRF board considered: there is no agreement; is that the proper use of the land; should we have stables; should we have horses; balance; appropriate use; should one resident, and onenon resident have exclusive use of an area that is owned by GRF foundation.
Rae asked: Couldn’t we formalize something, an agreement with liability?
Mary stated that she was required to have a $1 million liability policy with GRF named.
There is 80 acres of fenced pasture. Sustainable Rossmoor’s proposal is for 5 acres for solar.
It was asked:
. Isn’t there a proscriptive easement because of continued use, and estoppel.
Aren’t there legal ramifications if you say no, can’t do it anymore.
Horse owners here might have legal rights.
. What can we do going forward?
Tim suggested that the club president write a letter, asking for what the club wants, including specifics. He said the present policy is that GRF makes decisions and policy, the CEO implements them. He said that GRF looks favorably on club requests that are accompanied by monetary contributions. He suggested developing a proposal and lobbying for it.
Tim said: In developing a proposal, consider: number of horses, a stable, how much space, who is going to operate it, what kind of liability would come with that, weigh use of land, cost, liability, number of residents impacted. Balance, what amenities, how are they going to be staffed, what resources are needed.
Jeff stated that although solar started the investigation into horses on Rossmoor land, solar and horses are not mutually exclusive.
Tim said that the flat land that the stable was on has been “repurposed”.
Jeff said that contractors pay rent to store their equipment in the corporation yard. GRF receives a yearly income from rent, which reduces the coupon cost. Also, on-site contractor vehicles are a cost savings because, in theory, this lowers contractor bids to mutuals.
A club member stated that we have been ignored in the last six months, we would like to be involved.
Jeff said that the club should address the horse use of the pasture and the request for stables as two different issues.
Jeff also stated that we should address the pasture area or stable as two separate issues.
Jeff said that operational costs are paid by the coupon, and the trust pays for capital improvements. He said that resources are scarce. There are requests from the 226 clubs.
Jeff advised that we keep in mind that most proposals don’t get approved.
There was a discussion about GRF CEO Adams selling the Rossmoor stables to Hossmoor in 2003.
Jeff recommended that the club not get wrapped up in history.
When a question of historical malfeasance was mentioned, Jeff said to be careful of statements of malfeasance.
Jeff said to think about moving forward. What happens going forward is what matters.
Jeff said that what happened in past may be totally irrelevant.
When asked “If we don’t currently have guidelines for horses in Rossmoor, why can’t we have an agreement?”
Tim recommended that the club write a pasture proposal.
It was asked if there are maps we could look at that show where the solar panels are going. Jeff said that he can show where the solar is proposed. Contact MOD looking for map of GRF property.
Tim and Jeff were thanked and left the meeting.
Mary stated that, in any case, she would not bring her horses back to the pasture area. She said the pasture area is a difficult place to keep horses. She said that she would be removing the contents of the two current corrals, including the pipe fencing.
There was a discussion of using a Rossmoor flat area for classes for handicapped children. The state pays $80 per hour. Some of the proceeds could go to Rossmoor. A flat area, two horses and a round pen would be required. There is not enough room in the current two-corral area for this. There is a question of liability and whether a business can be run on GRF property.
Club members discussed putting together an outline, concept, what is needed, i.e. looking for any other place that would be suitable.
It was suggested that the club ask for a lot and hope for a little.
It was also suggested that the club start with small steps.
After Jeff stated several times that one Rossmoor resident was using a GRF pasture, it was pointed out that the eviction of the last two horses in Rossmoor affected all of the members of the Horse Enthusiasts Club and all of the residents of Rossmoor because this GRF action took away the possibility of having a horse in Rossmoor.
The subcommittee will meet and give feedback to club members.
O’Keefe and Matheson were thanked for meeting with the club and providing information and suggestions.
The meeting adjourned at 5:30 p.m.
Next meeting: 4 p.m. Monday, July 18, 2016.
Respectfully submitted,
Rae Miller, secretary/treasurer